FANDOM


== Why is this still the first wordstring of this leaf? == "The Banded Folkdoms of Americksland (BFA), mainly called the Banded Folkdoms (BF or B.F.) and Americksland, is a bound groundlawful folkwealth made up of fifty folkdoms and a bound shire."

Palerose (talk) 00:28, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

Use of Hof, Blomen, Leidish Edit

I am a little bothered about the use of: hof: maybe a word founded upon "deem" would be better. blomen: seems to me too little-known; would rather Afro-American. leidish:after first using "leidish" in the leaf, I now think that "sprachish" is better. Any thoughts?


the word "Leid" is still in use in Lowland Scots dialect, and it's in everyway better than "sprachish" which seems to me like a deliberate attempt to conform to other Germanic languages--------afterall the word "sprecan" in Old English does have a modern English derivative, "speak".

p.s. i can see you're trying to avoid using loanwords here. "found", when meaning "build", is actually a loanword. 114.247.93.10 02:13, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Use of Swarthy Americkslanders and BlomenEdit

"Africanas" "Africans" was in O.E. says the Online Etymology Dictionary. Although SOED doesn't make mention of an OE usage. Senator Barak Obama refers to himself as "black" and an African-American; although, I am aware, that his ancestors were not carried off as thralls to the American Colonies. Blomen, I believe, is a too little known; Swarthy-Amerikslanders could include Amerikslanders of Italian, Spanish or even Welsh ancestry. Any thoughts? Sholto 23:04, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I dont think many use "swarthy" anymore anyway. Have you heard it said? Anyway, I think "swart" would be good as "black" in all senses. Oakiscmann 02:51, April 2, 2010 (UTC)


Why do we need Swarthy? It might be true that not many people use it these days, but considering we're trying to provide continuity for a language at at its latest lasted until the 1100s, it's not the most sound of arguments. The current English word "black" in all its many senses and connotations is an old Anglo-Saxon/Old English word, and thus requires no change unless the goal is to completely rewire the entire language instead of simply calquing and neologising to fill the gaps made by removing foreign elements. TwinmeisterGeneral (talk) 06:15, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

NameEdit

I think that the oversetting of "United States of America" would be better as "Gathertang Rikes of Americksland," as "Gathertang" (taken from Old English) is better for "United" than "Banded" (which could be used for "Federated"), and while "Folkdom" should be reserved for "Democracy," "Rike" is a word that means, literally, "State." --Faxfleet 20:18, March 27, 2010 (UTC)


I have begun to call this country "West Anglia" Oakiscmann 02:47, April 2, 2010 (UTC)


Folkdom vs proposed "boundland". The use of the term "folkdom" is problematic with regards the states of the United States; if it is taken to mean "democracy" (which it could, as litterally "people-jurisdiction"), then it isn't a satisfactory translation of state which, although they are all democracies, are not described in that way and are better described in other ways. For example, we can look to Austria and Germany, both federations and created in the German sister-language. The term for a German or Austrian state or province is "Bundesland", so an American state could easily be translated either simply as "land" or, where precision were required to delineate an American land from "Americksland" (in the same way in which Austria varies between Land and Bundesland), they could be translated as "boundlands", being the cousin and proposed calque of the German "Bundesland".

Rike vs proposed Ric or Rich. Additionally, 'rike' as the proposed decendant of Old English rīċe overlooks one of the few descendants of that word still extant in the English language: bishopric, as the domain of a bishop (originally equivalent to the term diocese which superceded it), contains the word in the form "ric". The word is also found in the modern name Richard, pronounced as the adjective "rich" (retaining the OE affricated c), meaning wealthy (and which is descended from the word as well). The German form of the word, Reich, means both Reich in the sense of domain (Königreich) and also in the adjectival sense of wealthy. Because of this, I would recommend changing the terms "rikelings", and other forms created with this term, either to "riclings" or, preferably, to "richlings", using either the stopped or affricated 'c', but in both cases avoiding the terminal -e which copies a german diphthongisation not supportable given available evidence. (Ric pronounced /rɪk/, as in extant bishopric, Rich, pronounced /rɪʧ/ as the closest approximation of the Old English rīċe (note the dotted c), but in either case with the i vowel pronounced /ɪ/ as in pin, avoiding an i pronounced /aɪ/ as in pine.

Rike, ric and rich, as Anglish forms of German Reich is undersirable as a translation for state – particularly for an American state because while it is ordinarily held to mean 'state', it actually refers to kingdom, since it is cognate with the Latin word rex and the Irish . Indeed, we can see that in modern German no republic uses the word either for itself or any of its component territories. The difference between Land and Reich in German is about the same as between country and kingdom in English; they both refer to the same vague idea, but Land or country is much more general than Reich or kingdom, and kingdoms are a subset of countries while republics, like America and its states, are a different subset.

Description of the federation. I don't understand the distinction above of united vs federated, since for all its description, the United States is a federation not a unitary authority (which previous United _____s had been); historically any united state was one which was made a unitary authority in succession to its predecessors, rather than a multiple tier government. In any case, foroned, given above, is a good Anglish 'sister' of the Swedish förenta, such that "Foroned Boundlands of Americksland" would be the most serviceable translation of "USA", but it suffers in one-to-one correlation (if that matters) because all the languages which use a variant of 'foroned' to describe the United States also use a cognate of the word 'state' which of course is of Latin origin. A possible work-around would be to use the word 'stead', which is reminiscent of state but of English origin and in fact is the cousin of the modern English word 'state'. Therefore, "the Foroned Steads of Americksland" would best represent the form of the modern Germanic terms. However, if substance is to be preferred over form, and since the US is a union of plural states like unto the German and Austrian Bündesländer aforesaid, ideas for fully fitting translations could include "the Gathering of Americkish Boundlands", as the "Union of American States" – the similarly named Organisation of American States could be translated with Linking or Lidding (the English form of German Gliederung), with States in this instances translated as Lands rather than Boundlands (since the OAS is not a federalising of independent (i.e., unbound) states) TwinmeisterGeneral (talk) 06:09, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Your detailed examination of the terms is much appreciated! I had taken to the formulation "Foroned Ricks of Markland" as an ideal translation, because, as you have now discussed, "foroned" is the best Germanic equivalent for "united," and "rick" is the best modernization of rice in the nominal sense. "Markland," after the name given by Leif Eriksson to a segment of the Labrador coast, is what I've sought to apply to the entirety of America, as I feel it is elegant, it's entirely Anglo-Saxon in its elements (if a calque of the identical Norse), and it conveniently shares the /m/-/ɹ/-/k/ core consonant sounds of "America" in its distinguishing element, thereby perhaps affording the neologism a coincidental superficial familiarity. I must say I disagree with you on the matter of translating "state," however, as I feel that "rick" is fully legitimate in this sense...need we look further than the Icelandic use of ríki in this sense to find justification? In addition, it's not as though the English term "state" were without a considerable range of meanings itself, especially considering its siblings "estate" and "status," and thus having a certain degree of semantic flexibility in the usage of "rick" might in fact be called for. I believe a one-to-one translation of the country's official name is mandated, if we are to allow for a more historical and neutral replacement of political terminology. —Faxfleet (talk) 04:36, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

Foroned Rikes of Americksland shall work better because, UK became FK and not BK.Ronnie Singh (talk) 09:09, November 14, 2016 (UTC)

Americkish OverthrowingEdit

Sorry, but this was a clear misawending of the word 'revolution' there was no 'overthrowing' as this betokens an outside landhera which costens to takeover, as with 1066. In the 'Americkish Uprising' they were deemed to be the same folk till after the hild, they were 'colonials' and not a sundered body of outlanders. So strife came from within and not from outside - that is a selfhood-making deed and not 'conquering' --Gallitrot 15:02, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Has this been changed? Overthrowing is more suggestive of a coup than the idea of revolution suggests. A much better translation of revolution would be 'uprising'.

Names of Rikes(States) Edit

Xelebes has eked a wonderful list of Rikes' names, which I have tried to make slightly eathier to read.

If I could, though, I would like to go over some of them:

New York: Does not really need to be ednamed, as it had already been yielded into 'Eoforwic' in Old English, which meant something like "boar village", and the Norse did this again with 'Jorvik', which became 'York'.

Colorado: Hueland is good for "Colorado", however I believe the name and word "Colorado" hints at a reddishness as well; although right me if I am wrong about this. So I put forth 'Redhue/Huered', or maybe 'Redcast/Castred', for thinking about.

Vermont: Maybe 'Greenfell' or 'Greenberg' might work better, as the name "Vermont" means "Green Mountain".

Idaho: I think "Bitterroots" by itself or maybe "Bitterroot" looks better. In my own undertakings at naming "Idaho" I had come up with 'Laxland' or 'Laxen' after the "Salmon River" that runs through it.

All I can think of right now. Anglom 20:31, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

The literal translation of 'Colorado' in English is "coloured", but we might want to avoid that for obvious reasons. The -ado is descended from the Latin -atus (perfect passive participle of -are verbs), so the most succinct translation of Colorado, using the word you chose, would be "Hued", and it sounds rather good to my ear. It makes no less sense than "Colorado" and is about as pure a calque as you'll find.

As for Vermont; OE made no little distinction between hills and mountains. Modern English only does because we pick and choose words; mons meant hill too. A name which sounds good to me for Vermont is "Greenlow" – low is used in placenames in the UK and descends from an OE word meaning hill, while it's different enough from the word hill or mountain itself that it's not instantly intelligible the way "Greenhill" would be. The OE word for mountain, incidentally, would be "highbury" in English TwinmeisterGeneral (talk) 06:40, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Foroned is better me thinks... Edit

Seems to me that it should be "Foroned Folkdoms of America". The other theidish tongues anwield this mix of words. Swedish: Amerikas förenta stater, Deutsch: Vereinigte Staaten, Nederlands: Verenigde Staten.

I would also bolster those who wish to anwield "rikes" instead of folkdoms. U.S. states are after all rikely (sovereign) from a lawhood standord (standpoint).


Jpirving 04:08, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Change of "Lawlordly" to "Rightready" Edit

I changed "Lawlordly" to "Rightready" as a translation for "Judicial (branch)" for a number of reasons, including referring to chief judges rather than the courts themselves and bringing unnecessary complications regarding the use of "lord" in a discussion on a republic's judicial system (it is the difference between the Lord Chief Justice and the US's Chief Justice; had Anglish been continuous this detail would not have been overlooked the way it was not overlooked in English).

The change combines right and rad in the same way modern German does (cf: Gerichtsrat); the change of -rad to -ready as the adjectival form was made in allusion to an extant example in the name "Ethelred the Unready", referring to one who didn't heed counsel rather than one who was unprepared. Essentially, "Rightready" means "pertaining to the council(s) of right/justice", as opposed to earlier "pertaining to chief law officer(s)".

When it comes to further developments along these lines, I would offer for consideration the name "Fullmighty Rightrad" for "Supreme Court", using a calque of the Latin "plenipotentiary". Of course, there's no reason why something like "Overall Rightrad" wouldn't suffice; it's clear enough. TwinmeisterGeneral (talk) 20:47, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Markland?Edit

Why is the name suddenly "Markland"? What is it about the name "America" that the editor thinks means "borderland"? This is a highly unsatisfactory change.

I believe the name Markland comes from a name given by the vikings when they first landed in North America. For this Theedish background and alike sway to "aMeRiCa", it is handled, not forwhy it means "borderland", although that may have been the first sake the vikings named it so. OlykoekSlayer (talk) 01:47, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

@OlykoekSlayer that's exactly right. I actually locked the article because I felt we needed to reach consensus at least on the country's name in order to make any progress. I don't see how "Americksland" could be any more legitimate than "Markland," especially considering the fact that the element "Americk" is derived directly from "America," which is of course a feminized Latinization of the Italian name "Amerigo," iteslf ultimately from Middle High German "Haimirich" and cognate to "Henry." In any case, an "America"-parallel form would only be purely Anglo-Saxon if it came along the lines of "Homerick" (to calque "Haimirich"). I originally proposed "Markland," and still stand by it, because I feel it's the most elegant replacement for "America," and indeed it has the core consonant-sharing convenience, plus it's historical (if only vaguely so). Unless someone can come up with something better, I say we go with "Markland." —Faxfleet (talk) 06:59, January 31, 2013 (UTC)
I too like the name Markland, definitely over Americksland, and I knew the etymology up to Italian Amerigo, but I had no idea it came from Middle High German. I'd like to know where the word "Foroned" comes from though. I'm also under the assumption that rick is a calque for Reich, but it seems riche is the obsolete Modern English cognate. Regardless though, Reich/riche/rick/rike seems to be more for an empire as opposed to a democracy. Anyhow, I'm not asking for anything to be changed now; I'm sure the name's been changed enough recently. Just some thoughts =) OlykoekSlayer (talk) 00:51, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
I'd actually like to propose a Theedish name for the American continent. Now, hold on to your hats-how about "America"? It has nothing to do with any "Amerigo". Not even "Amerike". Those are possibilities, but in reality, it most likely comes from Norse words, "omme" meaning far away or over, and "rike" meaning rike/ric/rick/reich/rice/rik/rich/riche/rikh. Thus, it is of Theedish origin. The Vikings did call this land area "Ommerike". That became a Anglicized "America". And, there you go! BUT! Some people, including myself, are opposed to calling this country "America/Markland/Americksland", because it seems arrogant and America is the whole super continent. The only other word I could find, without referencing another continent ("America") , country ("West Anglia/New England", "Columbia") , etc., or anything racist (based off of "Gringo") or hostile (based of "Yankee"), was "Fredonia" or "Freedonia". It is what United States of America/Foroned Ricks of Markland was called shortly after the Revolutionary War. See the Wikipedia page for "Freedonia". Now, the "foroned" is pronounced like "for" and "one" with a -d on the end. It is related to the Yiddish "fareynikte" meaning "united." The far- marks past tense, the "eynik" means the adjectival form of "one", and the -t- is past tense, and the -e marks an adjective. So, that's the "foroned." So, here it is: "Foreoned Shires of Fredonia" (as the rike/ric/rick/reich/rice/rik/rich/riche/rikh/rake/rock/ruck/Rick/raykh debate is starting to be needless and annoying.) So, any thoughts? {{SUBST:User:CrabKakeZ MD027/sig}} 21:49, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
I was under the impression that America was the, or a, Spanish equivalent of the Germanic given name Heimrik. 92.30.151.10 17:50, September 24, 2013 (UTC) A passing anon

I bid thee to tell me how the names of the states were made.

Kerfinglands, Bluedowns, and so on... Shagbeard (talk) 21:14, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

I am agree completely with OlykoekSlayer, we cannot change proper nouns. I understand that we avidly seek to erase all trace of foreign influence from this, our native language; notwithstanding, we must put a limit to all of this. Words which come from foreign names MUST stay that way for the sole reason that the people whomfrom they come must be respected as great men of history and their names unchanging. Therefore I believe the CONTINENT of "America" must stay that way, however, what I do believe we can let ourselves do is to Anglishize the name of the "United States of America". In which case I am in agreement with CrabKakeZ. To call them the "Foreoned Shires of Fredonia/Freedonia" is, in my opinion, acceptable. Why? We speak of a country, NOT a continent.Yet, I have also seen that the continent of "North America" is also referred to as the Northern Nightland because it is in the western part of the world, in the direction where the sun sets. So I believe we can also say "Foreoned Shires of the Northern Nightlands", it's also possible. The Youngest Grimm (talk) 02:54, October 20, 2017 (UTC)The Youngest Grimm

Proper Nouns and Historical Revisionism Edit

While this two-part question may belong in a more general discussion page, I thought posting here would also be relevant: (1) Since when did this project decide to translate proper nouns and (2) what is the principle for adopting Anglish versions of such names?

Personally, I would live proper nouns intact. It is simply difficult to find a guiding principle. If we begin introducing new placenames, are we going to do so for personal names, too? Are we going to translate President Obama's name into [Arabish for] Blessing Handsome [Luo for] No-meaning-attested? Even the most extreme purists of any language community leave some proper names untranslated.

As to this particular article, I am not satisfied with the change from Americksland to Markland. It is improper because it carries not only the linguistic significance of adopting a purely Germanic name, but it also denotes the historic revisionism, making this project look more like an alternative history website than an outlet for conlang enthusiasts. If we have a desire to uproot Latin traces in any possible instance, we may have replaced Americksland with Haimirichland or Haimiriksland (or a variant thereof).

Although I contributed a few entries to the project some years ago, I am relatively a newbie here and I might be out of touch with what the Anglish Wikia is all about. If you think I have failed to connect the dots, I'll be glad to consider your objective remarks.

Best wishes,

Getoar

The names of mexico and canada were derived from Aztec and French, respectively.

Idaho? Edit

Why not have it as "Spudland" or "Stoneland" (as the state is often called the "Gem State")

208.81.157.114 19:56, December 6, 2016 (UTC)Rose Snowflake

Todays Foresitter is no longer Barack Obama, but Donald Trump.

46.5.2.114 22:10, April 23, 2017 (UTC) christian@wudika.de

Strange Outland WordsEdit

"The end of the Cold War and the fall of the Band of Workermootly Kithish Folkrike left the United States as the lone overmight."

What ever is "United States"? Is this some strange Latin phrase? Does it mean Banded Folkdoms? Ronaldo Smith (talk) 23:06, September 11, 2017 (UTC)Ronaldo Smith


I know not what these fremd words mean either; whosoever cast them knows not of the eldfrim forcoming of said words whatsoever. Player67 (talk) 04:47, May 6, 2018 (UTC)