Talk:Book

From The Anglish Moot

I wrote all the books of the old witnessing, but I don't know whether they all have their good Anglish names. Also, I named the Five Books after their Hebrew names; if you want to make them after the Greek, it would be "Beginning, Outway / Way Out, Levitish, ... don't know :D and Last Rules" or something. B 22:08, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

My ears hurt from the use of "thou" on this leaf (is that the right word for "page?" Forgive my newness). Should it be "thou wish" or "thou wishest?" Or does the Anglish toungue, which :I am not learned in, but wish to be learned in, use "thou" in this way?

-68.69.111.110 23:28, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I am the only one on the Moot who seems to write 'thee' and 'thou', so I'd best tell you how I see it. I think that the pronoun and the conjugation do not need to be together, and are only often seen together through some thought of it being 'archaic'. The pronoun was slowly pushed out of the tongue by a preference for 'you', which was brought in from French, therefore it ought to be restored. But the conjugation died away quite naturally in English (as did all the rest), and need not be restored.

Following the only folk who yet say 'thee' and 'thou' naturally (some speakers in the north of England), it ought to be used with the same conjugation as the third person singular. So, to my mind, 'thou wishes', seem right. But as I said, I am the only one who ever writes it here. Oswax Scolere 13:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I shall use thou also, as it makes sense.68.69.111.110 00:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

"You" though is alright in my outlook since it was there in English before 1066. Just my 2 cents.70.242.2.31 23:18, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

It was, but was used only in the manysome. I think. Thou was singular. French changed this.68.69.111.110 00:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Folks can write as they please in non-article leaves. In article leaves we need a standard. The current standard is you-you-you-you, not thou-thee-ye-you. Oswax is right, it was an originally French practise which led to the death of thou and others, yet we decided it would be inappropriate to bring back to life thou a.o. This may change. Anyway, the bible should be overset with thou and thee, if you ask me, because it is traditional and that IS how it is written. However, for general articles, we should not use thou and thee. That is to say, articles ABOUT the bible should not be with thou and thee, but texts FROM the bible should have this distinction. BryanAJParry 01:10, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

By traditional you're probably thinking of the King James Bible, but by then thee and thou was already used as informal address for God, not in the singular sense. Laurascudder 13:49, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

For clarification purposes (for those who don't know), the following equivelences exist(ed) between the first person and the second person: I-thou, me-thee, we-ye, us-you. That is (ignoring agreement), I like thee, Thou like me, We like you, Ye like us. BryanAJParry 01:13, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Here is a useful diagram:

person | nom. | acc. | pos. |ind. ending|

-1st s | I | me | my/mine | none |

-1st p | we | us | our | none |

-2nd s | thou | thee | thy/thine | -est/-st |

-2nd p | ye | you | your | none |

-3rd s | he/she | him/her| his/her |-eth/-th/s |

-3rd p | they | them | their | none |

In everyday speech, singular pronouns were kept for wellknown friends, and plural pronouns were used for strangers and highborn folk, e.g. the royal plural. The thinking for this was that speaking to a man in the singular bore with it a feeling of churlish interest in his self business. Instead, it was seen as more polite to speak to him as though he were one of many. So "ye" was mostimes spoken instead of "thou". However, in some reaches of England and the old Danelaw, the accusative forms came be spoken in both nominative and accusative senses. Therefor "us" came to be spoken for "we" and "you" for "ye". Nowdays, "we" is again said by most English speakers for the 1st person plural, yet the accusative "you" is still spoken in place of the nominative "ye". However, though it be sooth that the singular pronoun is not used by most and not likely to be anytime soon, I would liefer that "ye" become once again the everyday nominative form of 2nd person adress.--Jrmints 19:38, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Two Minor Changes

In your forthtelling of the bibles makeup, used ye the word "cleft" so it were like the Romish word "divided". However, "cleft" is the past participal of "cleave" from Old-Englisc "clifian", meaning "to cling to". I have gainwritten "cleft" as "cloven", which is the past participal of "cleave" from Old-Englisc "cleofan", meaning "to split up". As a help, recall that "cleave" meaning "to cling to" is conjugated [cleave, cleft, cleft], and that "cleave" meaning "to split up" is conjugated [cleave, clave/clove, cloven]. Next, ye quoth "Feel free to work on it as thou wishest." "Wishest" is an indicative form of wish and means that the subject wishes forsooth. However, sith the readers might or might not wish, ye should have used the subjunctive form of "wish" that is indeed "wish" for all persons. Therefor have I gainwritten "wishest" as the subjunctive "wish".--Jrmints 17:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nameshift

Should we not shift the name of this leaf to "The Book of Evil", for the word "Bible" stems from the Greekish?--Witan 20:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

How about "The Book" and/or "The Word" for "Bible? Sholto 12:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

How about The Moot?--Degen Earthfast 15:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Why "The Book of Evil"? --98.111.139.133 20:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)