How do I say?

From The Anglish Moot

How do I say? is where thou putest any askings as to how something ought to be said (I dare say thou couldst already tell that). Put a new heading for each asking, with the word(s) as the heading 's name, and below write anent the word(s) to give a better clue as to what is needed. Also write any thoughts thyself has on the word.

Contents 1 Tolerance level 2 Thesaurus 3 Grocer 4 Social Class 5 Past Participle 6 Novel 7 Meter 8 Re- 9 Lord's Prayer 10 Writewise 11 Hemisphere? 12 German 13 Project

[edit] Tolerance level

As in 'the load was above the tolerance level of the framework'. I would like the word to fit with all meanings, not only the narrow meaning of 'load'. I think the word ought to be built upon 'brook', but the only thought I can come up with is 'brookwidth'. Oswax Scolere

the letting breakeven? the lettable breakeven? --Wordsmith 07:43, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thesaurus

Any ideas?

I have a pre-thesaurus thesaurus(1830), called The Writer's Assistant OR A Compendium of English Synonym's. Maybe something calqueish along those lines? I say, just leave it. It's quite far from the heart of the language, is a nice word, etc. Dictionary is nice as Wordbook because Wordbook is easy and obvious. ~Inkstersco 3 Jan 06

Wordnet--Wordsmith 07:32, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Thesaurus was greek for store-house, how about wordstore? JimTS 20:47, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grocer

[if we need a word for "grocer", that is] I was thinking "wholesaler", or perhaps "wortsaler/wortseller" or "veg[etable]seller/saler" or "greenseller/saler". BryanAJParry 17:20, 5 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Foodstuffshandler,Foodsalesman--Wordsmith 07:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Wortmonger or Greenmonger. ~Inkstersco

[edit] Social Class

Alright, here goes:

Class(n) -- Rank, Birthrank
Genteel -- Well-born, well-bred
Gentleman -- Welbredsman
Establishment, the -- The Steadyhood
Upper-class -- Inner-Steadyhood
Middle-class -- Outer-steadyhood, Yeoman
Lower-class -- Lower rank, shabbyrank
Working-class -- Working rank, Workerhood, Handyrank, Shabbyrank
Aristocrat -- Rikeborn
Bourgeouis (adj) -- Wealthtrothen, Wealthbound
Bourgeouis (n) -- Wealthbound, Swell
Proletariat(n) -- Working-poor
Officitariat(n) -- Clerkhood
Government, the -- The Rikehood
Navvy -- Handworker
Chav -- Hoodrat
Gutter -- Roadgroove
Valet -- Steward, Radman, Welbredsman's welbredsman
Priviledge -- Perk, rankperk, rankluck, birthluck
Distinguished -- Aloof, outstanding
Snob -- Snoot, high-hat

Well-born is established, and as ambiguous as "gentleman". "Rank" is of Germanic origin, and an 18th\19th century term for "class"

Inkstersco 09:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Past Participle

Can anybody think of an Anglish swap for the term 'Past Participle'? I have done a writ but these are the only words I have not been able to Anglish? Any help would be welcome. 83.100.152.229 15:07, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Some ESOL books use the words "the third form" instead of "past participle" - this jargon is already in use in certain areas of English teaching. The nitty gritty here is that the third form is used both for "perfect" verb meanings and also to form the so-called "passive". With two almost against-each-other usages it seems better to have a pretty meaningless label.

That sounds like a challenge.

How about,

Past Wordway

Past Meanway

Past Bymean

Past Meanling

Past Wordeldth

Past Deedeldth

I'm not happy with any of them.

~Inkstersco

Yeah its a tricky one. I have tried to draw on German and Dutch words but without success so far. German = Partizip Perfekt and Dutch = Verleden Deelwoord which I think roughly translates as 'Past Partword or bitword' or something like that. Its hard to find an elegant match :( 83.100.193.241 14:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Define "past participle". A lot of folks confuse it with the past perfect. The past participle is, literally, a verbal adjective. So, "past workwordish honeword", perhaps? Bryan 82.44.212.6 21:37, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

So "he is upset", is past participle, whereas "don't upset him" is past perfect? What do Workdworkish and Honeword mean? I think -ish should not be used as a topical usffix. -ly, or nothing at all, work better. ~Inkstersco

I think Bryan is on the right path. If we look at what it does instead of where the name comes from, we will maybe get nearer to making a good name for it.

From Wikipedia: In linguistics, a participle is a kind of verbal adjective; it indicates that the noun it modifies is a participant in the action that the participle refers to.

So we could start with the fact that it is an adjective or 'honeword' (assuming we wish to use that word for adjective). From there we need to show that it is linking the noun to a deed. So that might suggest something like 'deedhoneword' or 'linkhoneword' or even 'sharehoneword' (since it 'shares' the deed with a noun). I don't think any of these are particularly great, partly because they are maniparted compounds which remind me of German when it goes to excess. I suppose that if we decided that this was alright for Anglish, then one of these words would be acceptable. My choosing would be 'deedhoneword' for it most nearly translates 'verbal adjective', though it could imaginably be confused for 'adverb' (though I would use 'likeword' for that).

On a slightly connected matter, 'deedhoneword' for participle would suggest 'deednameword' for gerund, which is useful (like the above, it would translate as 'verbal noun').

As for 'past', I would normally bring it over as 'foregone'. That would translate the whole thing 'past participle' as 'foregone deedhoneword'. Not pretty to my eyes, but liken to the Dutch 'Verleden Deelwoord', and you get the sense that it may be acceptable. I think there may be a better word out there, but these are my thoughts, it's up to you, you're the translator. Oswax Scolere 08:07, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm a little lost. Why is Adjective Honeword? Doesn't Hone mean to gravitate toward something? Alright -- so let's take that as read. So participle is Deed-adjective, as in Action-adjective? I see. We're talking about adjectives such as "he's wasted", etc?

I've got it! Let's calque the phrase "Verbal adjective".

Deedword-honeword for Participle ?

What about "Done honeword" for Past Participle?

Or Bygone Deedword-Honeword -- Long but elegant.

~Inkstersco

Firstly, 'hone' means 'sharpen' not 'gravitate towards', and 'honeword' was my word for 'adjective'. The thought being that an adjective 'honed' the meaning of a nameword. As such 'a shirt' is honed to a narrower meaning by the adjective 'red', giving ' a red shirt'. I don't know if it was ever wholly agreed upon, but I do remember there was a problem with some of the other suggestions.

I thought my suggestion was a calque of 'verbal adjective'!? I don't normally go in for calques, but at least here the meaning is clear, unlike if we were to try and calque 'adjective' directly (it would come out as something like 'throwntoword') or even 'participle' (which come out as 'sharer', hard to understand as to meaning, and, ironically, would be a calque of a calque!). Oswax Scolere 10:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your input guys. You've given me a lot to work with here :) If we can come to an agreement on an Anglish 'past participle' maybe it would be a good word to put in the Speechlore section of the Technical Words bit. Hereward 213.249.239.2 10:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh yes, as for 'Past', I wasn't sure whether to Anglish it or not. I did consider using 'Foregone' as you suggested Oswax and also 'bygone' as they both indicate time which has gone by. It was the 'Participle' which was the tricky one, like you said, to calque it would mean calling it a 'sharer' or even a 'partaker' which even then is only a hybrid word. They don't really give a clear meaning do they? But thanks for all your thoughts, you have been most helpful. Hereward 213.249.239.2 10:59, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

If I am correct the Dutch "deelwoord" would be equivalent to "dealword" in English. This would give us the following possible suggesstions for Past Participle: Foregone Dealword, Bygone Dealword or Eretide Dealword. (I like the terms eretide and forthtide for past and future) Any thoughts on these?

Remember, Hereafter(noun) is already an attested word for Future, except it means the future of now. Thereafter also means Future. ~Inkstersco

[edit] Novel

Since I came to this site through procrastinating, (er, timewasting?) on NaNoWriMo, I was wondering how you might say 'novel', as in the book. Literally it means 'new', but I don't think 'newbook' really cuts it. 'Talebook' might be better but a book of stories would also fit that. 'Booktale'? --Hook-nose 21:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

We already say "short story", so novel should become "long story".FranzJericho 02:00, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meter

Does anybody else think that the word 'meter' is ok Anglish if anything because of its similarity to the verb 'mete'?. It seems quite logical that something that metes would be a meter. The two words seem to come from the same Indo-European root if not the same Old English root, and has the same trivial differences as 'nose' and 'nasal'.83.100.150.20 15:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I do. I already use it in this way. 'Thermometer' becomes 'heatmeter', 'speedometer' becomes 'speedmeter', and so on. It just so happens that the same word in Anglish and English look the same, despite having different origins. Oswax Scolere 11:13, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re-

This may have already been considered, but I know of an English prefix which corresponds to re- in the 'back' sense of the word, but not in the 'again' sense of the word. Where the word means 'back', maybe we could use the prefix 'with-'. This can be seen in the words 'withdraw' and 'withhold'. Based on this, a word like 'recall' could become 'withcall' and so on? Sound ok? 83.100.151.120 16:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Easy -- don't use prefixes. Say "do again" instead of Redo. Anglish must be English, remember. ~Inkstersco

Yeah, that works ok for verbs, but less well for nouns. You can't call a replay an againplay or play again as it doesn't sound very natural. 87.102.18.148 16:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

"Playback(n)". To review is to "look back". A review is a "lookback". ~Inkstersco

And shold be eke (also) Englysshe in the Speechcraft, in such wyse lyke: 'I did that already yesterday' rather than 'I already did that yesterday' the lykeword placement in the seconde wordstring is too muche lyke Frenchspeak. Nothing wrong with 'What mean you' instead of 'What do you mean' either, right? 144.139.89.57 12:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lord's Prayer

Most is mostly straightforward but one sentence is tougher...

"And lead us not into temptation,

But deliver us from evil."

here's what I've figured...

"And lead us not toward wrongfinding

But take us from evil."

Horatio 19:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

My interpretation

"And lead us not into wrongdoing,"

"but spare us from evil"

70.120.160.29

[edit] Writewise

I know this is most likely not the abode to write about such matters, but I am interested to know if anyone else has though about "spelling reform" for Anglish, that is to say writing with þ and ð in a way closer to that of Old English? Not only that but also taking words from Old English that have been lost and bringing them back, so we do not have to use -thing suffixes so much? Is this something anyone else has though of or is it another project all together? AnthonySenn 22:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

No, that's outside the definition of Anglish. Anglish for the purposes of this site means "English inasmuch as it is Germanic" or "Anglo-Saxon English". Spelling reform is a different project altogether. The only spelling reforms in Anglish are misplaced Latin invasions. So, we write island as iland. Otherwise, it's a non-issue. ~Inkstersco

[edit] Hemisphere?

How would one go about saying hemisphere? I'm not sure of its roots, but I think it comes from Greek, so it doesn't exactly work. I looked in the wordbook, but there was nothing.

What about Worldhalf? During my childhood in Australia I am sure that my nanna (born 1872) used this word and, also, the saying:"In this half of the World." Sholto 23:19, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Why say Worldhalf? "Half of the world" works fine. ~Inkstersco

Hemisphere refers more generally to half of a sphere not not just half of the world. Halfball may be appropriate in some contexts.

[edit] German

I see that the word Teutonlandish has been used for the German language. Etymonline however, says that the earlier words for German in English were Dutch or Almain. As Dutch has taken on another meaning now, would it be ok Anglish to use Almain for German? 87.102.32.114 09:35, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't speak for Almain, but i've been going with (New) High-Theadish/Theidish for the tung, whence Neuhochdeutsch. To say but Theadish might work sometimes, but that would best be had as an oversetting for Germanic. Schreiter 00:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Almain presumably stems from the Latin Alemanni

[edit] Project

. . . as in the noun project, eg. "A new disability project has secured funding". Can anyone suggest an Anglish equivalent. I thought about just using the word goal but I think it's missing the nuance of meaning implied by project in this sense. It should, I think really have the meaning of being both a "goal" and being a location at the same time - like a bricks and mortar place or site. Especially when one uses it in the following sense: "several projects throughout the city". Goalstead is another idea. Please help!!!! --62.249.233.80 23:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, there aren't many words for project in the sense that you are using. The most reasonable would probably be an "undertaking" which is within the scope of mainstream English usage. It might also be possible to say something like "several works throughout the city have secured funding." From what I know, the closest thing in OE would be anginn or onginn, which are the noun forms of onginnan, which in turn survives through it's variant beginnan (now obviously to begin). However, this original word for this concept is now no longer useful, as "beginning" no longer has any connotation of a project. A neologism based in OE, such as "ongin" or "onginning" might be possible, but it is probably best to use "undertaking", as it exists in modern English. Anyway, if any other thoughts or usages are needed, I'm sure there are other words that might suffice. -Noimnotokay 22:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)